Plato's The Republic

About the Author

I am trying not to know too much about authors before reading their works when reading the Great Books of The Western World series because that was the suggested modus operandi from Mortimer Adler. Here, I will summarize what I learned about Plato in the brief introduction given to him in the book.

Plato was born in 428 or 427 BC to parents who were members of some of the most distinguished members of Athens. Plato's early life coincided with the Peloponnesian War, the shattering of the Athenian Empire, and the fierce civil strife of oligarchs and democrats in the year of anarchy 404-403 B.C.. He is said to have known Socrates from boyhood, and his early ambitions were political. The condemnation of Socrates was the final straw in him leaving political life.

After the execution of Socrates, he went on a series of travels during which he discovered his vocation of philosophy and wrote most of his dialogues. Plato founded the Academy upon returning to Athens. He spent the remainder of his life making the intellectual center of Greek life. Based on the works of Aristotle, it seems that he lectured at the Academy without manuscript; he suggested problems to his students which were solved by joint research. Around age 60, he was involved in the politics of Syracuse due to being requested to help King Dionysus II by his friend Dion. He died at around 80 years of age.

Overview of the Work

The dialogue begins with Socrates and Glaucon attending a festival at Piraeus. As the begin to walk back to the city Athens, Polemarchus, son of Cephalus, confronts Socrates and coerces/convinces Socrates and Glaucon to stay at his father's house in order for Socrates to see some more festivities later that night.

At Cephalus's house, Socrates and his host first discuses whether life [is] harder towards the end. Cephalus claims:

Socrates, that these regrets, and also the complaints about relations, are to be attributed to the same cause, which is not old age, but men's characters and tempers; for he who is of a calm and happy nature will hardly feel the pressure of age, bhut to him who is of an opposite disposition youth and age are equally a burden.

They then discuss money, which Cephalus has a lot of and claims to have earned it on his own, and Socrates asks: what is the greatest blessing of wealth? Cephalus mentions the lack of a need to deceive and defraud others:

For let me tell you, Socrates, that when a man thinks himself to be near death, fears and cares enter into his mind which he never had before; the tales of a world below and the punishment which is exacted there of deeds done here were once a laughing matter to him, but now he is tormented with the thought that they may be true: either from the weakness of age, or because he is now drawing nearer to that other place, he has a clearer view of these things; suspicions and alarms crowd thickly upon him, and he begins to reflect and consider what wrongs he has done to others. And when he finds that the sum of his transgressions is great he will many a time like a child start up in his sleep for fear, and he is filled with dark forebodings. But to him who is conscious of no sin, sweet hope

They then get on the main topic of the dialogue: what is justice? Cephalus retires, leaving the argument to Polemarchus, Adeimantus, Glaucon, Thrasymachus, and Cleitophon. At this point, I am not going to go into detail on what is discussed in the dialog from here on out (the dialogue is pretty long and I will probably take better notes next time), but I will give a very brief overview.

On the topic of what is justice, there are some suggested answers:

• the re-payment of debt is just, Simonides
• the interest of the stronger

A little while into the dialogue, another question is raised: Is the life of the unjust more advantageous than the life of the just? In other words, is it better to live as an unjust man than as a just man. In discussing this question, Glaucon tries to paint a picture for Socrates of the most unjust and just men - in order to show him why most people think the life of the unjust is more advantageous - and during Glaucon's explanation, he mentions the ring of Gyges. Returning to discussing the nature of justice, Socrates mentions that, for the man who has poor sight (which the people in the argument still do in regard to the two main questions of the dialogue), it is easier to see bigger things than smaller things, so:

Then in the larger the quantity of justice is likely to be larger and more easily discernible. I propose therefore that we enquire into the nature of justice and injustice, first as they appear in the State, and secondly in the individual, proceeding from the greater to the lesser and comparing them.

At this point in the dialogue, Socrates and his fellow philosophers start discussing the ideal state. Here are some things to note about the state that Socrates discusses:

• Everyone does their own job.
• There is a lot of censorship.
• • Basically prevent children from hearing anything that they might imitate which would lead to discord, i.e. never let the children know of the existence of lying.
  • There is a lot of thought given to education.
• There are guardians who protect the state and live apart from other members of the state.
• God is taught to be something that makes only good.
• Education is a mix of music and gymnastics
• The best should rule.
• • This is called Aristocracy / Monarchy by Plato and Socrates.
• Women should be taught the same as men.
• People procreate within specified ages.
• There is no real familial bond between parents and children. Children call everyone in preceding generation (assuming generation is about 25-50 years) dad/mom.
• Classes of the state:
• • Traders
  • Warriors
  • Legislators
• What to Study:
• • Math
  • Geometry
  • Astronomy

Other topics that are discussed:

• Elements of the Soul
• • Reason
  • Desire
  • Passion
• Faculties of the Soul
• • Reason
  • Understanding
  • Faith
  • Perception
• Allegory of the Cave
• Myth of Er

• Forms of Government and the transitions between them:
• • Timocracy
  • Oligarchy
  • Democracy
  • Tyranny

Review

It had been a while since I read anything like this. This was my first team reading through Plato's Republic in its entirety, and I honestly tried to read through it pretty quickly because I have other things to do. I read the Benjamin Jowett translation and I didn't think it was too hard to read, but some parts of the dialogue got pretty boring. It may be because I think that the dialogue became meandering at some points, or because that I am like in Thrasymachus in that I think Socrates take(s) the words in the sense which are most damaging to the argument.

There were some funny parts in the dialogue where you can really empathize with Socrates' philosopher companions when they try to urge him to get back to the central question. Also, when Thrasymachus becomes angry with Socrates and he is taken aback - that is another funny point.

I didn't think that Socrates was really proposing an ideal state, but it is just hard to imagine that some of the proposals that he was making could have possibly worked in ancient times but not today. The censorship, having complete control over kids' educations to the degree that is mentioned in the dialogue, is hard to imagine, but maybe it could work.

I don't think I really understood Plato's forms until I read through the Republic in its entirety. It is an interesting idea, and the things Socrates said about knowledge are I think still relevant and worthy of being kept in mind.

Overall, I enjoyed the work, and I will probably re-read it when I go through the Great Books series in the correct order.

Some Interesting Notes (That I Don't think are often discussed)

Some countries send their bright students abroad to study, so I found this quote relevant:

And yet what greater proof can there be of a bad and disgraceful state of education than this, that not only artisans and the meaner sort of people need the skill of first-rate physicians and judges, but also those who would profess to have had a liberal education? Is it not disgraceful, and a great sign of want of good-breeding, that a man should have to go abroad for his law and physic because he has none of his own at home, and must therefore surrender himself into the hands of other men whom he makes lords and judges over him?

Many people say they hate school, but love learning on their own, which is why I found this interesting:

knowledge which is acquired under compulsion obtains no hold on the mind

On the importance of math:

those who have a natural talent for calculation are generally quick at every other kind of knowledge; and even the dull if they have had an arithmetical training, although they may derive no other advantage from it, always become much quicker than they would otherwise have been.

Quotes

Socrates to Cephalus:

On talking with Old People:

There is nothing which for my part I like better, Cephalus, than conversing with aged men; for I regard them as travelers who have gone a journey which I too may have to go, and of whom I ought to enquire, whether the way is smooth and easy, or rugged and difficult.

On the Rich Not Caring About Money:

I see you are indifferent about money, which is a characteristic rather of those who have inherited their fortunes than of those who have acquired them.

Socrates to Thrasymachus:

On Justice:

for he really meant to say that justice is the giving to each man what is proper to him, and this he termed a debt.

Socrates:

On Appearance vs Reality:

persons often err about good and evil: many who are not good seem to be so, and conversely?

On Appearance vs Reality / Friendship:

We should rather say that he is a friend who is, as well as seems, good; and that he who seems only, and is not good, only seems to be and is not a friend; and of an enemy the same may be said

On Ignorance:

as becomes the ignorant, I must learn from the wise

On solving problems for free:

no one likes to take in hand the reformation of evils which are not his concern without remuneration

On artists and who has power in relationships:

the true artist does not regard his own interest, but always that of his subjects

On why to lead (a good reason):

he who refuses to rule is liable to be ruled by one who is worse than himself. And the fear of this, as I conceive, induces the good to take office, not because they would, but because they cannot help --not under the idea that they are going to have any benefit or enjoyment themselves, but as a necessity, and because they are not able to commit the task of ruling to any one who is better than themselves, or indeed as good.

On the soul:

to superintend and command and deliberate and the like. Are not these functions proper to the soul, and can they rightly be assigned to any other?

On the reasons for the state:

A State, I said, arises, as I conceive, out of the needs of mankind; no one is self-sufficing, but all of us have many wants.

On the spirit:

Have you never observed how invincible and unconquerable is spirit and how the presence of it makes the soul of any creature to be absolutely fearless and indomitable?

On the importance of beginnings:

You know also that the beginning is the most important part of any work, especially in the case of a young and tender thing; for that is the time at which the character is being formed and the desired impression is more readily taken.

On habits:

Did you never observe how imitations, beginning in early youth and continuing far into life, at length grow into habits and become a second nature, affecting body, voice, and mind?

On Virtue:

virtuous nature, educated by time, will acquire a knowledge both of virtue and vice: the virtuous, and not the vicious, man has wisdom --in my opinion.

On the state and the relationships within it:

our aim in founding the State was not the disproportionate happiness of any one class, but the greatest happiness of the whole; we thought that in a State which is ordered with a view to the good of the whole we should be most likely to find Justice, and in the ill-ordered State injustice: and, having found them, we might then decide which of the two is the happier.

On the state, the importance of education, and beginnings:

the State, if once started well, moves with accumulating force like a wheel. For good nurture and education implant good constitutions, and these good constitutions taking root in a good education improve more and more, and this improvement affects the breed in man as in other animals.

On Temperance:

Temperance, I replied, is the ordering or controlling of certain pleasures and desires; this is curiously enough implied in the saying of 'a man being his own master'

On Justice and the soul:

But in reality justice was such as we were describing, being concerned however, not with the outward man, but with the inward, which is the true self and concernment of man: for the just man does not permit the several elements within him to interfere with one another, or any of them to do the work of others, --he sets in order his own inner life, and is his own master and his own law, and at peace with himself; and when he has bound together the three principles within him, which may be compared to the higher, lower, and middle notes of the scale, and the intermediate intervals --when he has bound all these together, and is no longer many, but has become one entirely temperate and perfectly adjusted nature, then he proceeds to act, if he has to act, whether in a matter of property, or in the treatment of the body, or in some affair of politics or private business; always thinking and calling that which preserves and co-operates with this harmonious condition, just and good action, and the knowledge which presides over it, wisdom, and that which at any time impairs this condition, he will call unjust action, and the opinion which presides over it ignorance.

On Philosopher Kings:

Until philosophers are kings, or the kings and princes of this world have the spirit and power of philosophy, and political greatness and wisdom meet in one, and those commoner natures who pursue either to the exclusion of the other are compelled to stand aside, cities will never have rest from their evils, --nor the human race, as I believe, --and then only will this our State have a possibility of life and behold the light of day.

On Philosophers:

And may we not say of the philosopher that he is a lover, not of a part of wisdom only, but of the whole?

On Knowledge:

being is the sphere or subject-matter of knowledge, and knowledge is to know the nature of being

On Knowledge and the Soul:

He whose desires are drawn towards knowledge in every form will be absorbed in the pleasures of the soul, and will hardly feel bodily pleasure --I mean, if he be a true philosopher and not a sham one.

On Being vs Appearance:

And the soul is like the eye: when resting upon that on which truth and being shine, the soul perceives and understands and is radiant with intelligence; but when turned towards the twilight of becoming and perishing, then she has opinion only, and goes blinking about, and is first of one opinion and then of another, and seems to have no intelligence?

On the Good:

In like manner the good may be said to be not only the author of knowledge to all things known, but of their being and essence, and yet the good is not essence, but far exceeds essence in dignity and power.

On Knowledge:

knowledge only which is of being and of the unseen can make the soul look upwards

On the dialectic:

And so with dialectic; when a person starts on the discovery of the absolute by the light of reason only, and without any assistance of sense, and perseveres until by pure intelligence he arrives at the perception of the absolute good, he at last finds himself at the end of the intellectual world, as in the case of sight at the end of the visible.

On the dialectic and science:

dialectic alone, goes directly to the first principle and is the only science which does away with hypotheses in order to make her ground secure

On the forms:

At any rate, we are satisfied, as before, to have four divisions; two for intellect and two for opinion, and to call the first division science, the second understanding, the third belief, and the fourth perception of shadows, opinion being concerned with becoming, and intellect with being; and so to make a proportion:
As being is to becoming, so is pure intellect to opinion. And as intellect is to opinion, so is science to belief, and understanding to the perception of shadows. But let us defer the further correlation and subdivision of the subjects of opinion and of intellect, for it will be a long enquiry, many times longer than this has been.

On the importance of learning much in youth:

Solon was under a delusion when he said that a man when he grows old may learn many things --for he can no more learn much than he can run much; youth is the time for any extraordinary toil.

On not teaching philosophy too soon:

There is a danger lest they should taste the dear delight too early; for youngsters, as you may have observed, when they first get the taste in their mouths, argue for amusement, and are always contradicting and refuting others in imitation of those who refute them; like puppy-dogs, they rejoice in pulling and tearing at all who come near them.

On riches and virtue:

for when riches and virtue are placed together in the scales of the balance, the one always rises as the other falls

On Democracy:

These and other kindred characteristics are proper to democracy, which is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder, and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequals alike.

On Democratic Man:

His life has neither law nor order; and this distracted existence he terms joy and bliss and freedom; and so he goes on.

On Democratic Man:

his life is motley and manifold and an epitome of the lives of many; --he answers to the State which we described as fair and spangled

On Tyrants:

This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears above ground he is a protector.

On Life:

Those then who know not wisdom and virtue, and are always busy with gluttony and sensuality, go down and up again as far as the mean; and in this region they move at random throughout life, but they never pass into the true upper world; thither they neither look, nor do they ever find their way, neither are they truly filled with true being, nor do they taste of pure and abiding pleasure. Like cattle, with their eyes always looking down and their heads stooping to the earth, that is, to the dining-table, they fatten and feed and breed, and, in their excessive love of these delights, they kick and butt at one another with horns and hoofs which are made of iron; and they kill one another by reason of their insatiable lust. For they fill themselves with that which is not substantial, and the part of themselves which they fill is also unsubstantial and incontinent.

An argument for Aristocracy:

every one had better be ruled by divine wisdom dwelling within him; or, if this be impossible, then by an external authority, in order that we may be all, as far as possible, under the same government, friends and equals.

On forms:

This was the conclusion at which I was seeking to arrive when I said that painting or drawing, and imitation in general, when doing their own proper work, are far removed from truth, and the companions and friends and associates of a principle within us which is equally removed from reason, and that they have no true or healthy aim.

On immortal soul:

But the soul which cannot be destroyed by an evil, whether inherent or external, must exist for ever, and if existing for ever, must be immortal?

Plato being (appearing) Aristotelian:

A man must take with him into the world below an adamantine faith in truth and right, that there too he may be undazzled by the desire of wealth or the other allurements of evil, lest, coming upon tyrannies and similar villainies, he do irremediable wrongs to others and suffer yet worse himself; but let him know how to choose the mean and avoid the extremes on either side, as far as possible, not only in this life but in all that which is to come. For this is the way of happiness.

On Life:

Wherefore my counsel is that we hold fast ever to the heavenly way and follow after justice and virtue always, considering that the soul is immortal and able to endure every sort of good and every sort of evil.

Glaucon:

On Justice:

I want to know what they are in themselves, and how they inwardly work in the soul

On Common Sense view of virtue:

The universal voice of mankind is always declaring that justice and virtue are honourable, but grievous and toilsome; and that the pleasures of vice and injustice are easy of attainment, and are only censured by law and opinion

On appearance:

as philosophers prove, appearance tyrannizes over truth and is lord of happiness, to appearance I must devote myself.

On virtue:

no one has ever blamed injustice or praised justice except with a view to the glories, honours, and benefits which flow from them